Aviation Turkey: What can you tell us about Airbus’ participation at the IATA AGM 2024? Did the Exhibition meet your expectations?

Johan Pelissier: Well, first, we are always happy to be in such an event. It's a great opportunity to meet all our customers, but also our partners, engine suppliers, and the press. So, it's really a great event in a few days to catch-up with all the industry. In my particular case, I'm very happy because I took this position as head of Europe only a few months ago. It’s a great opportunity to really interact with the entire ecosystem involved also in Europe.

Aviation Turkey: Let's talk about the European market. So, how much Airbus commercial aircraft business comes from Europe? How important is it for you globally in that region? And what do you think about the potential orders for the European markets in the coming days?

Johan Pelissier: I'll start with the record year that we had last year. It has been a record year for Airbus in terms of orders. We have had more than 2,100 net aircraft orders, and in Europe, it was also a record. We have actually had more than 700 net orders. And what was striking us is the recovery on the wide-body side because we have already seen the recovery on the single-aisle a little bit before, but we were not expecting such a recovery from last year. And especially in Europe, we have had more than 150 wide-body orders. Obviously, the Turkish Airlines (THY)’ one is counting for a big part of it, but not only. And this is for me a very big signal that Europe is fully back from COVID and taking the opportunities to take positions on the complete segment, be it single-aisle and wide-body. That was a record year as well.

Aviation Turkey: The COVID-19 pandemic has caused huge global disruption on both commercial and defense operations and programs. The aviation industry has been slowly recovering from the coronavirus pandemic-induced downturn starting from 2021. In the post-pandemic era, with the impact of Russia-Ukraine War aerospace industry has been experiencing supply shortages stemming from supply chain problems as a result of which the global airline fleet has not managed to keep up with demand since the global airline demand has outpaced fleet capacity development. How and to what extent has the COVID-19 pandemic impacted Airbus commercial aviation business operations in Region Europe including production, manufacturing, and supply chain and what measures did you implement to overcome this problem?

Johan Pelissier: So, back to 2023, last year, we've been able to honor our commitments in terms of deliveries. We have delivered 735 aircraft. And I want to remind you that our target was 720, meaning that we have actually delivered 15 more than our target. And obviously, our aim is to continue to grow and to deliver to our customers because the market demand is so high. And I mentioned the orders already that it's very important for us to continue to ramp up. We have, since already a number of months post-COVID, some clear targets for each and every program. An example on the single-aisle, we have a target of 75 aircraft per month to be delivered in 2027. So, definitely, we have invested in order to cope with that growth and that target. We have a target to have by that time 10 final assembly lines for the A320 globally.

And I also think we are agile enough in order to review some of our guidance and targets. And the example is on the A350 family. On the A350 family, we had an initial target of 10 aircraft per month by the end of 2026. But we increased it now to 12 per month in 2028. And this is due to the demand.

We are putting in place the investment, the means in order to also bring some flexibility, agility. And obviously, the supply chain is something that we are looking at with very high scrutiny in order to honor our commitments and to follow that guidance.

 Aviation Turkey: And another topic is, of course, engines. The GTF Engine of Pratt & Whitney is the latest setback to the airline industry’s recovery and growth from the pandemic. So, how can you manage it?

Johan Pelissier: First and foremost, we are working hand-in-hand with our engine partners and suppliers. In the case of the GTF, so for the case of Pratt & Whitney, we have been working with them. We are in constant dialogue with our customers using GTF. And jointly with Pratt & Whitney, we have some improvement plans in order for our customers to cope. Indeed, a difficult period where they will have a lack of engines and some aircraft on the ground. We cannot deny this, but we can work hand-in-hand with our customers and Pratt & Whitney to overcome that difficult period. And the GTF is, at the end of the day, building a lot of maturity right now. And we are convinced about that. A very mature engine, which will be giving full satisfaction for our customers moving forward.

Aviation Turkey: And it's not good for the A220, because it's one of your marketing areas in Europe, isn't it? And airBaltic has a sound order for that.

Johan Pelissier: I would say the A220 in the segment of regional jets is actually having some momentum as well. Last year, we've been proud to enjoy a repeat order from airBaltic with an additional 30 orders and more recently, this summer, airBaltic placed an order for 10 additional A220 aircraft bringing the airline’s total order to 90. Which shows that this aircraft has been the right choice for them.

Because they have this unique fleet of A220, but not only in the competition we had on Lufthansa last year. We've been selected as well with 40 aircraft orders. And the A220 is definitely proving itself in this segment as the front leader. As of the end of August 2024, the A220 has more than 900 orders from worldwide customers representing more than 55% market share. It's a clean-sheet design aircraft. It's an aircraft which provides to the customers a very great comfort inside with the largest cabin, widest seats, largest windows. The 5 abreast configuration is definitely giving satisfaction to big airline-groups such as Air France-KLM or Lufthansa, which have both opted for it.

And I think in terms of engine maturity, we also see an engine which becomes more and more mature. We aim to deliver 14 A220 aircraft per month in 2026. And with a new step that will be announced in 2026 as well, that will really give that family even more momentum, which is already there.

Aviation Turkey: Okay, it's off the record. Maybe you want to say something about this, but do you think that it will be in the Turkish Airlines agenda? I will not write this.

Johan Pelissier: No, but you can write that I think this aircraft, the A220, is definitely a good aircraft for Turkish Airlines for a regional market. I think Turkish Airlines has announced already that their initial focus in their plan for growing to 833 aircraft was focused on the single-aisle, and single-aisle meaning the A320 family or MAX, and the widebody. But I'm pretty sure that they are looking at it for the regional fleet. And this is definitely an aircraft that will fit with their future requirements. The A220 is the only aircraft purpose-built for the 100 to 150 seat market segment - offering up to 1,100nm more range for a total range of up to 6,700 km (flying on routes from 30 minutes to seven hours). The A220 allows steep landing approach (operations on runways as short as 1,300 meters) and ETOPS certification. For Turkish Airlines, it could be a good aircraft.

 Aviation Turkey: It could be good for AJet, Pegasus as well…

Johan Pelissier: Yeah, it all depends on their fleet and networks. 

Aviation Turkey: It can still be on the agenda. Yes. That's fantastic. So, how do you see the Commercial Aircraft market in Europe developing over the short to medium term from the point of view of Airbus’ products? What kind of new products and services do you see a demand for in the coming years? What is the future of commercial aviation for Airbus’ commercial aircraft?

Johan Pelissier: The development of the market in Europe, from the Airbus point of view. I mentioned that the widebody has already proven to recover. It's not finished. There are a number of big groups which are looking at additional widebody orders. And I think the current groups having done some orders may also look with high interest into, again, the A350, but also on the A330neo. I really believe that the A330neo could be a good platform for a number of airlines in Europe.

We benefit from having some earlier availability, even if with the current momentum, the availability is already a little bit later than what it was a year ago. There have already been some announcements, especially on the Asian market. It's a platform which actually Turkish is flying the most on the A320ceo and the A320neo is gaining maturity and is proving to be a momentum aircraft. And I believe in Europe it will be one to follow this year.

Aviation Turkey: Developing game-changing commercial aircraft requires game-changing technical capabilities. What innovative technology areas will Airbus focus on in the near term? 

Johan Pelissier: From Airbus perspective, I would here take the two key words from Guillaume Faury last year, which were delivery and sustainability. So, on the sustainability front, we are looking at supporting airlines  on their decarbonisation ambitions . And for that, we have a number of avenues to reach that target. Number one, today only 30% of the fleet currently flying is of a new generation, meaning that we still have to work with our partners and airline customers in the replacement of 70% of that fleet, which is older generation. And by that, we can already achieve some 25% of fuel & emission savings. On average, an A321neo or the clean sheet A220 aircraft compared to previous generation jets are providing 25% less CO2 emissions and fuel burn per seat. It has a 25% cost advantage per seat compared to previous generation aircraft.

Two, we are indeed working on new technology blocks. And here I would mention two things. First, we are aiming to have by 2035 the very first zero emission based on hydrogen aircraft, probably 100-seater, 1000 nautical miles type of aircraft. But this is a clear target. And we are working today on maturing building blocks in order to reach that target. We do not plan to announce anything as a new program before 2028, but today we are maturing building blocks. And same goes with any new generation aircraft. If we are launching a new program, besides the zero emission, this will also provide new savings compared to the latest generation that we have today.

And another one, which  I believe is very important, is for us to support the ecosystem moving into SAF. Especially in Europe, there are a lot of discussions with some mandates and a lot of airlines are taking some commitments by 2030 to have certain levels of SAF. On our side, our aircraft will be all certified to fly with 100% SAF by 2030. And obviously we are working to support the ecosystem towards that direction.

 Aviation Turkey: Let's focus on Türkiye now. After the historic order, can you elaborate on the current status of your relationship with Turkish Airlines?

Johan Pelissier: First, we sincerely thank Turkish Airlines for the trust that they have given us with such an order last year. So, I remind 150 firm A321neo, but also a lot of confidence not only on the A350-900 that they are already operating, but also on the A350-1000 with 15 firm orders and A350 freighters, five of the latter. This is a massive order that accumulated with a backlog already on both A321 and A350. This represents for us a number of deliveries that our teams are now focusing on to deliver on our commitments and the timeline that we have agreed with Turkish Airlines.

Obviously, this is not the only focus. We are discussing a lot with Turkish Airlines also about the way to integrate all the ecosystems of Turkish Airlines industries on board of the aircraft, but also to develop beyond that the partnership with them. This is part of the Strategic Türkiye Enhancement Program (STEP) that we have announced recently. That's also a clear focus from our teams to develop for the next 15 years and grow the partnership that we have with Turkish Airlines, but also with Türkiye and with the Government of Türkiye. We have a long-term partnership in Türkiye that we want to grow and all those numbers which have been shared during the announcement on the 29th of February are a clear focus for our teams. Moving forward, when I mentioned the priority that we may have for the region on the A330neo, I do believe that the A330neo could be a good aircraft also for Turkish Airlines.

That's our biggest operator in Europe for the A330ceo. So, I really believe that this aircraft makes a lot of sense for Turkish Airlines and we already mentioned the A220. So, that's two other platforms that I believe could be of high interest for Turkish Airlines.

 Aviation Turkey: Did Turkish Airlines have a decision on the selection for the engine for the A321neo?

Johan Pelissier: For the new order? Well, I will not comment on how Turkish Airlines are managing their engine supplier choice. 

 Aviation Turkey: Can you say something about the delivery schedule?

Johan Pelissier:Well, this is entirely the privilege of our valued customer !

Aviation Turkey: As you mentioned that it's a good opportunity to cooperate with the Turkish aerospace companies. So, what are the technological cooperation with the Turkish suppliers and Airbus suppliers over to Türkiye? Also, you have a long-standing cooperation with some of the Turkish companies like Turkish Aerospace, Epsilon and the others. So, what are your plans to grow this cooperation? And in addition to that, are you planning to make some kind of investment or maybe a technology center or something like that?

Johan Pelissier: So, that's exactly the purpose of this Strategic Türkiye Enhancement Program (STEP). It's to really move from a long-term partnership which was largely based on sourcing. And here I'd like to remind you that for more than 20 years already, we have developed a full ecosystem of suppliers based in Türkiye. And as a result, today, we have in each and every aircraft of our programs, be it the A320, A350, A330, some components from Türkiye. Also on the A220, we have Turkish components. Actually, when you are comparing an assembly line of the A220 with what we are providing already as an economic value to Türkiye, we are already quite high for each and every A220 supplied.

So that's the basis and this is only the very first pillar of our STEP. And obviously, with the demand, with the ramp-up that we have discussed at the beginning of this interview, we see some sourcing and volume that will increase over the next 15 years. Some values were mentioned, 4 billion were achieved already by 2023. By 2030, we'll be at €6 Billion euro value. That's quite a substantial value. Now, we are coming with three other pillars on STEP on the Strategic Türkiye E&S Program.

The second one is really to put more emphasis on the ecosystem linked to Turkish Airlines. So, TCI, the seats, Turkish engineering to embed them even more on the platforms. The ones that are ordered but even beyond. So that's the second pillar. The third pillar is around what I can call the human dimension of the training as well as education. We have already announced, I think it was back to September, October last year, in Karamanmaraş, the aviation school partnership that we are building with Turkish Aerospace.

And this is just one aspect of it, but we would really like to grow that human dimension. Education, training, generally speaking. Turkish is already a big operator in training and we are looking with Turkish, some synergies there on the way they are training their pilots and maybe to become also a third party to building with some partnership with Airbus.

And the fourth pillar which is last but not least and very important for us is around sustainability. It's how together with our partners globally in Türkiye, we can sustain and develop either SAF or other aspects that would be important to reach indeed our common target of being carbon neutral by 2050. So, this one is under definition right now, but it's definitely part of a roadmap together with our Turkish partners.

 Aviation Turkey: Will you do something related with SAF?

Johan Pelissier: It's part of our STEP program. We cannot elaborate at this point of time, but it's definitely part of it.

Aviation Turkey: Let's talk a little bit about the Pegasus, your current situation and what will be your positioning in the next order or whatever?

Johan Pelissier: I cannot comment too much on the current decision they may or may not take in ensuring the growth of the airline. I can just testify that they are a great partner.

We have been very pleased for them to have decided back already in 2013 to opt for the A321. I think the A321 is definitely the right and perfect aircraft for their operations. It's the most economic, but also the one that fits very well their network with the capacity that aircraft can provide.

They have been the launch customer for CFM Engine. They have renewed some orders at difficult times during COVID. So, it's really a trustful customer and partner. We value that partnership very much. They were the very first airline to take the first A321 out of our new Toulouse Final Assembly Line, which was last December. And also the very first one having taken deliveries through e-certificate during COVID. So, this is really a valuable partnership.

Aviation Turkey: The e-delivery was great. This is one of the biggest things.

Johan Pelissier: So, a lot of innovations that we enjoy very much in this partnership with Pegasus. I can only wish that we will continue to foster that partnership moving forward. But this is up to Pegasus to take the decision and to eventually comment to you where they stand.

Aviation Turkey: Last question. Do you have any plans for SunExpress? If you want to answer it or not, it depends on you.

Johan Pelissier: We are always in constant dialogue with our customers, but also with our non-customers. It's always important for us to keep dialogue, to keep constant discussions. We respect their decision last year to have continued the partnership with Boeing. But it doesn't mean that we are not in dialogue and discussions with them